Hi,
weil wir grad dabei sind über Tuning zu reden,wollt ich mal fragen was man bei einen 5 Liter TBI(L03) alles machen kann.
Auspuff ist grad in Arbeit,habe Fächerkrümmer drin und danach alles auf 3 Zoll umgebaut.
Hoffe ihr könnt mir weiter helfen.(Des mit dem Camaro lass ich mal).
Gruß Weschi
TBI Tuning?
Moderatoren: PontiacV8, J.C. Denton, Onkel Feix, JJ
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Knight-Design
- Beiträge: 2172
- Registriert: 05.03.2004, 15:53
- Wohnort: K-Town RLP
Den englischkundigen unter euch sei folgende Seite ans Herz gelegt (ein Loblied auf den LO3):
http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/praisetbi.html
Viel Spass beim Lesen!
Grüsse,
Patrick
http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/praisetbi.html
Viel Spass beim Lesen!
Grüsse,
Patrick
[ALIGN=left][FONT=tahoma]82's T/A, Hardtop, Tan Vinyl-PMD's[/FONT] [/ALIGN]
Hi,
hab nach 2,5 Stunden Googlen auch was gefunden,aber meine Englischkenntnisse lassen zu wünschen übrig.
This is for the 3rd gen lovers at our site that have the bottom of the barrel 305 tbi engines, im sure your all tired of bieng pushed around by those LS1s so heres your build up sheet to the same amount of power they have.
Base Dyno of Mule Engine- 145bhp @ 4000rpm / 165 lbs-ft torque @ 4200rpm
The first step was to take a 'donated' 305 out of a '82 Camaro. The 305 had 80,000 miles on the clock, 8.6:1 CR, and a grossly mild hydraulic cam. As such, the stock LG4 wheezed out a less than astounding 145 net (read at the flywheel, not the rear wheels) horsepower at 4000 rpm and only 165 lbs-ft of torque at 4200, as installed in the Camaro, complete with dinky exhaust pipes and the dysfunctional catalytic converter. For the rest of the tests, headers (type and diameter unspecified) with 3 inch dual pipes feeding Flowmaster (type unspecified) mufflers were used. A noncomputer HEI with 22 degrees of initial advance in the distributor was also used in this and all following tests of the dyno mule and the engine was run on 89 octane (readily available) gasoline.
Full Performance Exhaust System- 197.3bhp @ 4600rpm / 261.3 lbs-ft torque @ 3100rpm
With the headers, 3" dual exhaust, and high performance Flowmaster mufflers installed, no other mods (other than some timing and carb tuning), the motor's power and torque took a noticeable jump! It was noted that the headers alone were probably worth 30 or so horsepower, proving once again that the exhaust manifolds on the LG4 / L03 are for paperweight use only.
Add Edelbrock Performer EGR Intake Manifold- 216.6bhp @ 4200rpm / 284.8 lbs-ft torque @ 3300rpm
Or
Add Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake Manifold- 230.9bhp @ 4800rpm / 285.2 lbs-ft torque @ 3300rpm
With the addition of Edelbrock's Performer EGR aluminum intake manifold (with the EGR blocked off), horsepower climbed a very noticeable 19.3hp and the peak RPM dropped to 4200rpm, much more real world. Average power through the power band improved by 14.9hp along the curve and 21.2 lbs-ft of torque. Moving over to the Performer RPM intake manifold, horsepower jumped up 14.3hp but at a much higher RPM band. Torque barely moved (barely noticeable, about half a pound at most!(It should be noted that the Performer RPM manifold is taller than the stock or Performer EGR manifold, and you might run into hood clearance problems. This manifold will not fit under a stock 3rdGen hood (like a base Camaro, Firebird, etc.) as far as I know and understand.)
Add Comp Cams Xtreme Energy CS XE 262H-10 camshaft- 269.8bhp @ 5100rpm / 291.1 lbs-ft torque @ 3600rpm
With the choice to go with the Comp Cams Xtreme Energy CS XE 262H-10 hydraullic flat tappet stick, the engine saw an increase in horsepower of 41.9hp with virtually no losss of peak torque. That was with 16 degrees of iniitial timing. The torque was smoothed out over the power band and the camshaft seemed to really pull past 3300rpm. Power was moved up 400rpm than the stock unit. The Edelbrock Victor Jr. intake and Holley was retained for this power figure.
Add GM L31 Vortec Heads- 324.7bhp @ 5800rpm / 316.5 lbs-ft torque @ 4800rpm
Adding the L31 GM Vortec heads to the Holley combo above netted this figure. The heads had to be extensively worked in order to get them to install correctly with this engine. The Vortec heads have a unique intake manifold bolt pattern requiring a special and costly GM or aftermarket intake. Indeed, the Edelbrock Performer Vortec aluminum manifold is almost 40% more expensive than the regular Performer manifold! The valve cover bolt holes are the centerbolt design, meaning that early blocks and installations will have to switch over to the post-'87 center bolt valve cover design and late-model guided rocker arms. The heads have a volume of 64cc which will require milling in order to avoid compression loss on a 305, and the larger-diameter chamber outline requires that you use 350 head gaskets, a solution which could also cause a loss of compression. Car Craft milled the heads 0.045 inches and used a thin 0.015 inch head gasket to bypass these possible problems. With this work done, CC managed to maintain a CR of 10.0:1 on the small block with no detonation problems, even using 89 octane gas, once the L31 Vortec heads were installed. 1.6 ratio rocker arms added a few hp and lbs-ft of torque but not enough to warrant the expense.
Er schreibt was von Edelbrock,ist des was gescheites?
Gruß Weschi
hab nach 2,5 Stunden Googlen auch was gefunden,aber meine Englischkenntnisse lassen zu wünschen übrig.
This is for the 3rd gen lovers at our site that have the bottom of the barrel 305 tbi engines, im sure your all tired of bieng pushed around by those LS1s so heres your build up sheet to the same amount of power they have.
Base Dyno of Mule Engine- 145bhp @ 4000rpm / 165 lbs-ft torque @ 4200rpm
The first step was to take a 'donated' 305 out of a '82 Camaro. The 305 had 80,000 miles on the clock, 8.6:1 CR, and a grossly mild hydraulic cam. As such, the stock LG4 wheezed out a less than astounding 145 net (read at the flywheel, not the rear wheels) horsepower at 4000 rpm and only 165 lbs-ft of torque at 4200, as installed in the Camaro, complete with dinky exhaust pipes and the dysfunctional catalytic converter. For the rest of the tests, headers (type and diameter unspecified) with 3 inch dual pipes feeding Flowmaster (type unspecified) mufflers were used. A noncomputer HEI with 22 degrees of initial advance in the distributor was also used in this and all following tests of the dyno mule and the engine was run on 89 octane (readily available) gasoline.
Full Performance Exhaust System- 197.3bhp @ 4600rpm / 261.3 lbs-ft torque @ 3100rpm
With the headers, 3" dual exhaust, and high performance Flowmaster mufflers installed, no other mods (other than some timing and carb tuning), the motor's power and torque took a noticeable jump! It was noted that the headers alone were probably worth 30 or so horsepower, proving once again that the exhaust manifolds on the LG4 / L03 are for paperweight use only.
Add Edelbrock Performer EGR Intake Manifold- 216.6bhp @ 4200rpm / 284.8 lbs-ft torque @ 3300rpm
Or
Add Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake Manifold- 230.9bhp @ 4800rpm / 285.2 lbs-ft torque @ 3300rpm
With the addition of Edelbrock's Performer EGR aluminum intake manifold (with the EGR blocked off), horsepower climbed a very noticeable 19.3hp and the peak RPM dropped to 4200rpm, much more real world. Average power through the power band improved by 14.9hp along the curve and 21.2 lbs-ft of torque. Moving over to the Performer RPM intake manifold, horsepower jumped up 14.3hp but at a much higher RPM band. Torque barely moved (barely noticeable, about half a pound at most!(It should be noted that the Performer RPM manifold is taller than the stock or Performer EGR manifold, and you might run into hood clearance problems. This manifold will not fit under a stock 3rdGen hood (like a base Camaro, Firebird, etc.) as far as I know and understand.)
Add Comp Cams Xtreme Energy CS XE 262H-10 camshaft- 269.8bhp @ 5100rpm / 291.1 lbs-ft torque @ 3600rpm
With the choice to go with the Comp Cams Xtreme Energy CS XE 262H-10 hydraullic flat tappet stick, the engine saw an increase in horsepower of 41.9hp with virtually no losss of peak torque. That was with 16 degrees of iniitial timing. The torque was smoothed out over the power band and the camshaft seemed to really pull past 3300rpm. Power was moved up 400rpm than the stock unit. The Edelbrock Victor Jr. intake and Holley was retained for this power figure.
Add GM L31 Vortec Heads- 324.7bhp @ 5800rpm / 316.5 lbs-ft torque @ 4800rpm
Adding the L31 GM Vortec heads to the Holley combo above netted this figure. The heads had to be extensively worked in order to get them to install correctly with this engine. The Vortec heads have a unique intake manifold bolt pattern requiring a special and costly GM or aftermarket intake. Indeed, the Edelbrock Performer Vortec aluminum manifold is almost 40% more expensive than the regular Performer manifold! The valve cover bolt holes are the centerbolt design, meaning that early blocks and installations will have to switch over to the post-'87 center bolt valve cover design and late-model guided rocker arms. The heads have a volume of 64cc which will require milling in order to avoid compression loss on a 305, and the larger-diameter chamber outline requires that you use 350 head gaskets, a solution which could also cause a loss of compression. Car Craft milled the heads 0.045 inches and used a thin 0.015 inch head gasket to bypass these possible problems. With this work done, CC managed to maintain a CR of 10.0:1 on the small block with no detonation problems, even using 89 octane gas, once the L31 Vortec heads were installed. 1.6 ratio rocker arms added a few hp and lbs-ft of torque but not enough to warrant the expense.
Er schreibt was von Edelbrock,ist des was gescheites?
Gruß Weschi
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T/A all the way
- Beiträge: 329
- Registriert: 08.01.2004, 22:04
- Wohnort: Münster Westfalen
Kurz zusammengefasst beschreibt er, wie man durch den Einbau einer Doppelrohranlage mit Headers, anderer Ansaugspinne, Nockenwelle und Zylinderköpfen von 145 auf 324 PS gekommen ist.
T/A all the way
74 Trans am SD455, 76 Lincoln MKIV 460, 2x77 Grand Prix SJ 400, 70 LeMans convertible 455, 71 Formula 455, 68 Pontiac GTO 455, 79 Lincoln Town car 400, 79 Cadillac Eldorado 350, 71 Grand Prix 455
74 Trans am SD455, 76 Lincoln MKIV 460, 2x77 Grand Prix SJ 400, 70 LeMans convertible 455, 71 Formula 455, 68 Pontiac GTO 455, 79 Lincoln Town car 400, 79 Cadillac Eldorado 350, 71 Grand Prix 455
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T/A all the way
- Beiträge: 329
- Registriert: 08.01.2004, 22:04
- Wohnort: Münster Westfalen
PS: Habe ich auch so gemacht und kann den Leistungszuwachs der einzelnen Steps bestätigen.
T/A all the way
74 Trans am SD455, 76 Lincoln MKIV 460, 2x77 Grand Prix SJ 400, 70 LeMans convertible 455, 71 Formula 455, 68 Pontiac GTO 455, 79 Lincoln Town car 400, 79 Cadillac Eldorado 350, 71 Grand Prix 455
74 Trans am SD455, 76 Lincoln MKIV 460, 2x77 Grand Prix SJ 400, 70 LeMans convertible 455, 71 Formula 455, 68 Pontiac GTO 455, 79 Lincoln Town car 400, 79 Cadillac Eldorado 350, 71 Grand Prix 455
).Die Köpfe werd ich nicht drauf machen,ist glaub zu offensichtlich(TÜV ).
zum glück sehen die köpfe äusserlich fast alle gleich aus
und ich bezweifle das der tüvmann die gussnr. nachgucken wird. mach dir da ma keine gedanken. das merkt keiner.ausserdem sind die originalen tbi köpfe die schlechtesten die gm je produziert hat.
die müssen auf jeden fall weg wenn du leistung haben willst.gruss,
nebu
Hi,
Was empfiehlst du für welche?
Hab wieder a bissl im Internet rum geschaut und von World Products welche gefunden http://www.parts-pro.com/pdfcatalog/040-042.pdf mit der Nr.042650-1(ist ganz unten) sind glaub extra für 5 Liter TBI Motoren ausgelegt.
Das Problem ist das ich mich mit solchen Sachen noch nie beschäftigt habe.
Gruß Weschi
Was empfiehlst du für welche?
Hab wieder a bissl im Internet rum geschaut und von World Products welche gefunden http://www.parts-pro.com/pdfcatalog/040-042.pdf mit der Nr.042650-1(ist ganz unten) sind glaub extra für 5 Liter TBI Motoren ausgelegt.
Das Problem ist das ich mich mit solchen Sachen noch nie beschäftigt habe.
Gruß Weschi
Hallo zusammen,
Übrigens: die von Weschi reinkopierte (sehr interessante) Beschreibung in Englisch
beschreibt nicht den Umbau eines TBI, sondern den eines Vergaser-Motors (siehe: LG4, nicht LO3 oder sowas...).
Gruss,
Patrick
Übrigens: die von Weschi reinkopierte (sehr interessante) Beschreibung in Englisch
beschreibt nicht den Umbau eines TBI, sondern den eines Vergaser-Motors (siehe: LG4, nicht LO3 oder sowas...).
Gruss,
Patrick
[ALIGN=left][FONT=tahoma]82's T/A, Hardtop, Tan Vinyl-PMD's[/FONT] [/ALIGN]